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Topic: Alternative ink

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Victor
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Alternative ink
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Anything about alternative inks? Triangle said they announce their 64s compatible ink at the end of February. Any other news from different manufacturers?


Victor



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ironma
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Local dealer of Triangle in Bulgariia inform us that the inks will be available in april.

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saskbro
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Lets hope Oce CS6060 provides the ink at a more reasonable price. Anyone know the litre price?

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Logger
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Hi all,


I'm very interested in having a bulk ink solution for my Colorpainters.


I read from a newsgroup that a design company in Finland is making a low cost bulk ink solution for the Colorpainter 64S and it is due to be ready somewhere around April or May.
The company's website is www.inqvision.net. Now there is nothing about this yet, but maybe there is soon, I know they're developing it.


As far as I know, the Colorpainter chips can't be 'reset' just like you can the 4500's, as the printer can protect the chip after writing and there's also a digital serial number that the printer records.


Regarding the Colorpainter bulk ink solutions that come to market, you should make sure how the chip is made. If you need to keep taking the cartridge out and rewrite the chip, it can become tiring and take up too much time when you are too busy already.


A friend of mine uses in his company Seiko 4500's and they have some korean bulk ink solution.
The manufacturer has modified the original cartridges so that they work as ink tanks themselves.
There are lots of problems with ink leakages and they need to also rewrite chips all the time. I think they've already stopped using it because of the various problems.


For my Colorpainter I would only accept something that's as simple as possible and not relying on original cartridges at all. I don't want to start making the manufacturer's work by modifying some old cartridges from my trash...   ;)


This is only my point of view, I'd be happy to hear how others would like a bulk ink solution to be, regarding functionality.


-Eric


 



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Justin
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Triangle and Nusign will release the Bulk Ink System and ink during ISA show in Las Vegas.


cost for 1 liter is $185.00 each color.


Justin



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Logger
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Justin,


Have you seen any pricing information for the bulk feed system yet?


-Eric



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joshie
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My source says that bulk inks are not the best solution in this case right now, they're just not reliable enough. On the other hand third party cartridges cost more than twice less than the Seiko ones. The only question is - how good are they? I mean not only as far as physical properties are concerned, nor chemical, cuz i'm sure they are good, otherwise they wouldn't sell replacement cartridges, but the color gamut is the question. I wanna run a test, same media, same profile, two different inks. Anyone did that already?

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Anonymous
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Hello! I am sure that there is no technical problem with existing kinds of alternative ink using in Seiko 64S. Fortunately 64S is the best printer and very flexible for running and maintanance. Having some knowelege you can fill in or out any inks. But Of course the result of printing will depend of kind of ink. We tested on our Seiko 64S lots of ink - Bourdeluxe, Lyson, MegaInk and others. The result was very different. I can say that original ink EG-outdoor is the best but too expensive. That is why most of Seiko users are looking for more affordable solution against super quality.
From other side you should have special right solution to avoid chipped carts and use bulk ink.
If somebody is interested in it please, e-mailto.

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joshie
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I would like to email to You, but... i have no email ;) Don't post as anonymous! :)

CUL8R

Josh

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Anonymous
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Sorry, you can email me to aviators_72yahoo.com



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Anonymous
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Everybody who wants to know more about our special system for Seiko 64S to handle alternative ink without chips you can email me to aviators@72yahoo.com

Our final testing of alternative ink was some no-named ink from China. The result was perfect!
I suppose its formulation is similar to original. The smell, adhesion and colors are the same.
The cost is about $135. it seems to me that it is really produced on Seiko plant in China.

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Anonymous
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I tried the address a few times but it bounces back??

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joshie
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Anyone here used Belgian inks from Fillink (or something) ? I've heard they were good. Will be testing them soon. They're approx 150$ in retail. Guess 120$ if you buy in sets. I'll let u know.

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Anonymous
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Strange

Please, try to email to aviators_72@list.ru

or let me know your e-mail address.

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Anonymous
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I am not sure about Fill Ink. We did not test them.
And what do you mean? Is it special ink for Seiko 64S or just midl solvent for Roland/Mimaki?
Let us your result.

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joshie
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No, maybe they do have stuff for Roland and Mimaki, but who cares? ;) What they do have now as a novelty is replacement cartridges for Seiko. No bulk system!

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Anonymous
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Understood! They do have nothing. I am sure their ink for Roland/Mimaki wont suit the Seiko printhead because of density first.
Better look for Triangle, Mega ink or China ink made and tuned for Color Painter specialy.
About bulk system, I have right solution. It is easy, inexpensive and fully workable. No cartrige replacement.

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joshie
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Well actually don't be so sure ;) They do have dedicated Seiko ink and from what i have been said by another user, this is so far the best one he had. Surely that is not Mimaki or Roland ink - i know it wouldn't work ;)

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epriel
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Hello!


Megaink has launched its ink system for the Seiko 64S.


The system includes inks (CMYKlclm or CMYKog), bulk ink delivery system and a chip bypass solution.


For further information, please contact me directly.


Best regards,


Eliav Priel
VP Marketing & Sales
Megaink USA
eliav@megainkusa.com
954.745.1622


 



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Eliav Priel VP Marketing & Sales Megaink USA eliav@megainkusa.com 954.644.5055
ournigelmansell
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how are all these manufacturers getting around the chip?



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joshie
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A long hard way... but if you can get around bigger and more serious chips, then sure you can go round that one ;) I got an MSc in electronics, i should know ;) but i don't. However i'm sure that when you test the chip's response to various signals you will finally find how they store the info about the level of ink. Plus if the chip Seiko used on the circuit board is some kind of standard thingie, then you just take the manual and try to work your way round the thing.

What i'm interested now is the CMYKOG thing. I'd like to try it once.

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Anonymous
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Hi!


Getting around the chip was nothing but a VERY complicated, long and expensive project!


I'd be happy to have you test our Orange & Green inks for the Seiko 64S.


Let me know when you're ready to do so.


Best regards,


Eliav



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ournigelmansell
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wow, i'm sure it was costly. i'm surprised that you haven't had the seiko rep trying to view you set-up and how it was all done. our seikjo rep told me that it was impossible, but obvioulsy not.


go go the little guys



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epriel
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Hi!
I think you didn't get it...


We are an ink manufacturing company who managed to crack the chip proection, hence we don't have a Seiko rep. We're not a Seiko user.


Best regards,


Eliav



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Eliav Priel VP Marketing & Sales Megaink USA eliav@megainkusa.com 954.644.5055
Anonymous
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Eliav:


I believe you posted that you will warrant the ink system on all CP64S currently under warranty by Seiko that use your inks?


As I am sure you are aware, CP64S end users in NA that are presently under warranty from Seiko should be aware that Seiko (and their authorized service providers) will not provide warranty service to any parts of the printer that has come in contact with third party inks.  This includes print heads, dampers, ink lines, and pumps.  Seiko print heads are considerably more expensive than the Epson print heads used on Mimaki, Roland, and Mutoh printers.  In addition, Seiko print heads are considerably more difficult to remove and replace without special alignment tools. Will you provide the same "onsite" warranty repair anywhere in North America like Seiko?


I would incourage all prospective users of your product who are currently under Seiko warranty to secure your "warranty policy" in writing before conversion.



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ournigelmansell
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Hmm sounds like mr. anonymous comes from seiko. sounds like a very big warning to all you using or considering to use 3rd party inks


i woul tend to agree with then though. 3rd party ink manufacturers, in my experience, have always been more concerned with the sales of the ink, rather than the resulting effect it may have on the workings of the printer in the long term!!!



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epriel
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Dear Mr. Anonymous,


Thanks for warning your end users. I'm sure we all like it when our supplier warns us what not to do, what to purchase, what gas to use in our cars, etc...


To the point:
Yes, Megaink covers the warranty for the entire ink system, including the print heads - which will be replaced on site if needed.
If you take a look at the Mimaki user forums (e.g. the Yahoo one) you can see that NA users are very satisfied with our products, service and support.


Best regards,


Eliav



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Eliav Priel VP Marketing & Sales Megaink USA eliav@megainkusa.com 954.644.5055
Anonymous
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Mr. Eliav:


<<Thanks for warning your end users. I'm sure we all like it when our supplier warns us what not to do, what to purchase, what gas to use in our cars, etc...>>  LOL


First of all, I am not warning MY endusers; I'm advising ALL endusers currently operating a CP64S printer under a Seiko Warranty that Seiko (and their authorized Service providers) will NOT warrant the replacement (at NO charge) of ANY parts of the printer that have come in contact with third party inks (including print heads, dampers, pumps, and ink lines).  Furthermore, I would also ADVISE any Seiko CP64S enduser (operating under an existing Seiko warranty) who is contemplating purchasing third party inks to secure in writing a "Warranty Policy" from whomever they purchase third party inks from.


Seiko performs onsite warranty service to all of the endusers, anywhere in North America.  This warranty service is provided by Seiko engineers, National third party service enginerrs, and some factory trained service engineers employed by authorized Seiko resellers.  How many Seiko trained service engineers does MegaInk employ?


IMO, the bottom line is Caveat Emptor...Buyer Beware!


 



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joshie
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Well... I believe we all know well that if we do anything with the printer before the warranty expires, then we're basically screwed. But... first of all let me say that i don't believe that anyone would like to sell BAD ink in large quantities, just like such experienced companies like MegaInk and FillInk do. So i'm not really worried about the quality of ink. Color? Maybe. Anyway, secondly, after the warrany period is over - who cares? I think that many users here are already having their machines for longer than 12 months, right? Plus, if you're unsatisfied with the ink you can just switch back to the originals, and honestly - i don't think any Seiko technician will ever check for traces of third party ink in the ink system. Additonally, maybe in the US Seiko is covering the technical side of having one of their machines, but actually in Europe you can't buy a CP from Seiko. You have to deal with.. dealers :) And some of them are pretty straightforward - You don't want original inks? No problem. You can have others.

So, take it easy and let people do whatever they want to do.

As for myself, i'm running original inks and so far i don't want to change because i'm in a middle of a large and delicate order and i can't afford to have a slightest change of colours. But afterwards... sure i'm going to change :)

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Anonymous
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Joshie:


I concur with your post wholeheartedly!  My posts were directed at those endusers who are currently operating a Seiko printer under warranty; and, who might be considering converting to a third party ink.  Seiko ink in NA retails for around $270 liter cartridge and generally is resold for somewhere between $240 - $270 a liter depending on the enduser's volume and the resellers benevolence.  Megaink is advertising to sell their third party inks for $199.00 a liter.  It would amaze me that any enduser still under Seiko's warranty would even consider switching inks to save $40-$70 a liter (which equates to between 4 and 7 cents a square foot printed.


I would expect most users out of warranty to investigate inks and service contracts that make better sense for them. 



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