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Topic: Oce 6060 (same as CP64)

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jhagood
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Oce 6060 (same as CP64)
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Received my Oce 6060 (same as Seiko Color Painter) two weeks ago and am blown away by the quality of the prints. I had a Arizona 90 before and the difference is amazing.
Service contract is about $250 per month for second and third year (as compared to $650 per month from day one for the Arizona) and includes print head coverage as long as Oce (Seiko) inks are used. I had a sight banding problem the first week Called for service, they were out the following day changed a setting in the entry menu and then it was perfect.
The second job I printed was 1200 sq ft and it took 3 and a half hours to print, instead of the 13 hours it would have taken on the Arizona. Printing in 2 pass mode the prints were way better than my Arizona printed on it's best day. Although most of our printing is in four pass as long as you monitor the stepping and adjust it on the fly 2 pass is really acceptable for a lot of work.

For those with banding issues, the setting that the tech changed that cured the banding wa the head motion setting in the entry menu. The change was from normal to highlight.

The 6060 comes with Onyx (extra$) and there are about 20 medias with profiles (including the complete Avery line). Oce has made this printer about as turn key as a solvent printer can be.

Did I mention THE SEVICE IS GREAT!!

Jim

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swphotodi
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We just got the Oce 6060 one month ago. I do say that the machine is quite the good machine and the color and quality if great. I'm just having problems getting help. I too had problems with banding and had to do a 'Set up of New Media ' for all the different media we have and start from scratch. That had solved most of it. I do like the idea of changing to highlight instead of normal on the Head Motion. It sounds like you have great support down there. I was suggested to try this forum. Has anyone tried to print double sided? I don't know how to set it up on the Onyx software?


Scott



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ournigelmansell
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i don't thing the 64s was designed to print double-sided, but i have no doubt that the results would be pretty good! again i not sure if onyx will support that facility, think not, but ask your local onyx rep.

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joshie
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did anyone have any experience with printing a backlit film with the 64s? it's all very pale when backlit. i don't think that solvent can be used for that application, or, i should use some other material.

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swphotodi
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I use Oce Lite Cal Backlit Vinyl. The image isn't as crisp as the other media's, but the color is just fine. You just might have to play around with the color profiles on the software and find out what prints better on that backlite media.

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joshie
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Just wondering. Received an offer for Oce 6100 and CP100s. Actually Oce is considerably cheaper - almost 20%. Or is it just my Seiko local distributor charging so much for it.

But the fact is that i don't want Onyx. I want Caldera. Now i need to find out if i can run Caldera with Oce.

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ournigelmansell
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i would push your rep, as the untis are both the same piece of kit (someone's getting greedy here). i'm pretty sure you can run the caldera to both as mentioned the kits is the same. i should be looking at the caldera rip next week, so might be able to give you a more accurate heads up then

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Anonymous
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Iam not sure that I would purchase the Oce branded Seiko unit. Look at this link for a clue to the future direction of Oce (and it's not Seiko):


http://www.bigpicture.net/index.php?openchan=yes&channelnum=11&content=3095&displaynow=yes


Bob



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ournigelmansell
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perhaps this is down the the hp deal?? who knows but it's strange that they've immediately found another seiko-like printer to sell, or is that just me seeing something that is not there??

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Anonymous
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I think that your thought process is spot-on. Clearly Oce found itself displaced by the HP-Seiko OEM deal, and they went for the next-best option available to them - ColorSpan.


 



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joshie
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Well... but is Colorspan really that exciting? I've seen the UVR and it's... dodgy? I mean, it looks fragile and humble, prints slow and only on max 7mm thick boards... Are the solvent machines by Colorspan any better? Please let me know, i know literally nothing about them.

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Anonymous
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Joshie,


You seem fairly opinionated for admitting you know literally nothing obout the Colorspan UVR.


I've had mine now for 5 months. Other that my vehicle wraps that I still do on the 64s, all my other work is on the UVR. Printing directly to boards is saving me $3500 per month in vinyl alone.


Fragile? Its solid as hell, made from thick extruded aluminum. Not sheet metal like the 64s


Slow? Everything I do is at 200 sf/h, which is faster than the 64s


The 1/4 inch limitation has not been a problem. I print mainly 4mm Coroplast and 3/16" Fome-cor.


Tom


Smith Signs



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joshie
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Hey, thanks for your valuable input :)

Actually i have only seen this machine on various trade fairs and it actually hasn't made much impression on me. Plus, i am very inconvinced as to the "savings" on vinyl with UV :) First of all because UV ink is more expensive, but that is almost negligible, but most of all because if you happen to screw anything while printing directly on board, you have to face much bigger losses than in case of printing vinyl.

As you are here as "Anonymous" i cannot message you privately, so please give me your email or log in, i would love to discuss the issue of the UVR in detail, i would be greatly interested in that. And for sure i will make an appointment with my ColorSpan dealer.

Best regards
Joshua

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joshie
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Some time has passed and i have two more questions regarding Oce products :)

1) Oce 6060 (and Oce 6100) - how much different are those machines from the corresponding Seiko machines? I know i can't use the Seiko ink in Oce, that's one thing. Is there any other difference? I hope all the firmware settings are the same, especially regarding waste saving and auto cleaning, and that the maintenance mode is activated in the same manner.

2) Oce already sells Colorspan 72 UVR as their machine, however i've come to hear that there is already a better version, the UVX. Has anyone used that? Any other differences between UVR and UVX rather than the increased media thickness possible?

THanks a lot
Josh

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joshie
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jhagood wrote:
For those with banding issues, the setting that the tech changed that cured the banding wa the head motion setting in the entry menu. The change was from normal to highlight.


For those with banding issues, please remember that the higlight setting slows down the carriage. Therfore, sure, in 2 pass there is less banding, but also less speed. Moreover, the highlight setting does not influence colour - so the almost unprofilable 2pass setting still remains only good for rare jobs that don't require good colours (especially reds).

As far as Seiko 100s / Oce 6100 are concerned, it seems that the print modes are actually all by default having the "highlight" mode on. The "new" 540 mode seems like the good old 4pass mode from the 64s, without the highlight mode on. This is my assumption. Maybe Seiko did change something in the way the heads are covering the media with drops in the 540 mode, but actually... i don't think so.

Just my 2 cents.

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Anonymous
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I think that buying from Océ, as I did, is a sound investment. Not only they guarantee the delivery of spares for as long as 5 years but they also provide an impecable service to go along with the deal.


Ok, it is not a cheap deal but anyone who has been dealing with various suppliers for ink, media machines etc. like I did in the past can value a great service. A businessday lost is much more expensive than the initial investment.



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joshie
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jhagood wrote:

The second job I printed was 1200 sq ft and it took 3 and a half hours to print, instead of the 13 hours it would have taken on the Arizona. Printing in 2 pass mode the prints were way better than my Arizona printed on it's best day. Although most of our printing is in four pass as long as you monitor the stepping and adjust it on the fly 2 pass is really acceptable for a lot of work.



Forgot to relate to this before, and now that i also own the Oce CS6060 and i know it's EXACTLY the same as Seiko CP64s, i want to ask you one question - you say 2 pass is acceptable for a lot of work - well i say it indeed is, but it's impossible to profile it well. Were you able to get the same reds (just paler, but same hue) in 2 and 4 pass? I wasn't. It's just a different colour. Seems like magenta Seiko ink is not good enough for 2 pass. All other colours seem fine, just slightly paler, but probably thanks to the "different" magenta, the profiles i get for 2 pass are just very bad in case of reds.


jhagood wrote:

For those with banding issues, the setting that the tech changed that cured the banding wa the head motion setting in the entry menu. The change was from normal to highlight.

Jim


Jim, that setting has nothing to do with banding at all. It's only important IMHO for 2 pass, when you don't want to have twirling drop patterns resulting from the speed of the carriage = air movement under the head, and the amount of drops released at the same time. It simply makes the carriage go slower. Which is very undesirable ;)

IMHO banding in Seiko/Oce depends almost only on the following factors, in the matter of importance:

1) Temperature - the higher, the better - guarantees that ink in each pass will hit the media and dry out enough before the next pass comes, so that the two subsequent passes do not flow together to form a single line. This especially applies to vinyl.
Tho make sure that you use the same temperature for making the profiles and the prints. If your temperature during making profiles is lower (or you make profiles in 4 pass and print in 8 pass with the same temperature) expect worse color coverage - your blacks won't be as opaque as you wanted them to be :)

2) Feed setting - when your temperature is high enough, it's very easy to find the right step for your media. In my case it's 100.20% for vinyl most of the time.

3) Winding/Unwinding problems - if your banner material is not cut from the jumbo rolls in the correct manner, both edges are in a way welded together, so that considerable force is needed to pull it off from the roll. Also, in case of heavier rolls, the exactly parallel position of the unwinding section with respect to the machine is essential - my machine was slightly skewed - takes 3 minutes to fix it.




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cs6060
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Joshie said:
Oce 6060 (and Oce 6100) - how much different are those machines from the corresponding Seiko machines? I know i can't use the Seiko ink in Oce, that's one thing.

yes but you can use seiko ink in cs!*

from what I know cs and seiko are completely same - it's same machine with diferent branding.
regarding that cs has mutch better sticker - little metal oce sign oposit to big ugly ColorPainter sticker

* I meant good, but wrote wrong

-- Edited by cs6060 at 07:06, 2005-11-22

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ournigelmansell
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that's interesting! what error does the cs return when you put the seiko inks in?

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cs6060
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from what i know it should not report any error!

oce is selling seiko machine upon it's brand. so no diference in machine, ink...

only thing seiko did is doing something, probably adding aditional data on chip in cartridge, so that printer can recognise catridge.

in that way they are preventing their costumers to buy oce's cartridges.

so oce can sell ink for nothing and seiko users can't do anything.
but if oce try to sell their ink more expensive, cs users have option to buy cheaper ink from seiko!!!

clever thing!

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cs6060
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i have to admit that i didn't try that....

so ofcourse i'can be wrong, I'm just reporting what i heard and it seemed very logical for me.

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joshie
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actually the firmware on my Oce is different than on Seiko. maybe with the same firmware it's gonna run fine, but... i will have to try it.

btw - has everyone upgraded to the newest firmware? do it. i will do it soon too. i heard it's better = solves a few problems.

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ournigelmansell
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i think seiko are really honing in on the outstanding issues, and these upgrades so really help. more with head stability and lessing drop outs. i've upgraded and it's so much better

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cs6060
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actually the firmware on my Oce is different than on Seiko. maybe with the same firmware it's gonna run fine, but... i will have to try it.

in what way do you mean diferent?

if you mean on version - your supplier is suposed to give you new versions of firmware.

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joshie
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firmware that differs only by 2nd least important number. i have found no differences between this firmware and my seiko firmware. so i guess that it is just Oce version vs Seiko version.

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cs6060
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i don't thing the 64s was designed to print double-sided, but i have no doubt that the results would be pretty good! again i not sure if onyx will support that facility, think not, but ask your local onyx rep.

i tried double-sided printing.

paper (two sided citylight) was little bit hard to do but it passed. i've printed first back side (50%of color in mirror) and after first side with full color. even though back had less ink on it, paper was sticking to plate, but it passed. only real problem was to get front and back side to concur in milimeter...

banner no way. first side passes perfect ofcourse, but back is sticking to plate no meter you put beneath banner...
don't even think to print it without putting something smooth beneath banner.
if your print (picture) has white background and some little lighter text in meadle, than it's possible to print it, but other than that.... no way...

ofcourse plate has to be as colder as it can be (as it can handle ink)...

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joshie
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Ha! We do print double sided banner on Seiko :) With perfect match. But i am too sleepy today to tell you how. It wasn't easy, but we managed.

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cs6060
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ofcourse everything depends on material. i might have bad material (although i've tried 3 defferent banners)

perfect match is no problem...

but printing side two without sticking it to plate...

i've tried with papir transfer - sticked it to plate, and then printed side two. plate was cold as low as it could be...

even then banner was sticking...

i achieved double sided printing, but to much effort for something like that...

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cs6060
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by sticking to plate I'm thinking on problem of material riseing and heads hiting into it (because of that sticking)....

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joshie
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Yeah i know, i will explain later how to minimize sticking without any paper or whatever.

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